Brian (00:12):
Welcome to Money and Mindset with, Bright and Brian, a podcast that explores how good financial habits and positive psychology can help you find greater happiness and confidence. I'm Brian Ford, Head of Financial Wellness at Truist. I'm joined by my co-host and friend, Bright Dixon, Truist's resident expert in positive psychology who helps people find their purpose at work and in life. Hey, Bright, how you doing today?
Bright: host 2 (00:36):
Hey, Brian. I'm doing great and I am so excited for this episode, which is all about the joys of not spending money. We'll discuss why reining in your spending can be a key to feeling happier and more grateful, and we've got the perfect guest to help us understand that connection. We'll be joined by Paula Felps, who's the host of the popular podcast Live Happy Now.
Brian (00:59):
What a great topic. I'm sure we all know people who struggle with the idea that money buys happiness and we see them accumulate more and more things just to try and keep up with the Joneses all in an attempt to chase happiness. I'm excited to talk about how saving money can lead to having more joy in life, right? You ready to do this thing?
Bright: host 2 (01:21):
Let's do it. Our guest, Paula Felps, is in an award-winning writer and storyteller and the host of the popular weekly podcast, Live Happy Now, which offers ways to improve your well-being with daily practices and insightful mindset chefs. Paula is also the host of On A Positive Note, where she talks to singers, songwriters, and other music insiders about how music can lift our spirits. Welcome to the show, Paula.
Paula: guest (01:49):
Thank you so much. I am truly excited to be here. I think, Brian, you guys are doing such an incredible job with this, and the message that you have is so important and I am really honored that you would just let me sit down and talk with you.
Brian (02:01):
Yes, this is going to be a great conversation. When we were doing the intro and Bright was basically just saying how you find joy by not spending as much money. I was like, "Oh boy, we got our work cut out for us. This is going to be a very cool show." I'm excited.
(02:20):
We know that simply accumulating more things doesn't always lead to happiness, but to be fair, there's also some pretty strong positive emotions that come with purchasing items that we all really want. I'm thinking of how it feels to buy a new car, when you finally have enough money to purchase that whatever special thing you've been wanting. But, Paula, if we flip the script and we focus on saving money, what are some of the emotional benefits of spending less?
Paula: guest (02:49):
Okay, so first of all, I'm going to say, just so you don't think I'm out there, I completely understand why people love spending money because there's that whole cascade of feelings that come with it, you get that anticipation of buying something, you get that dopamine release when you make the purchase and that sense of satisfaction and gratification. And then when you're waiting for it to arrive, you have that anticipatory savoring of what you're going to do with it.
(03:12):
But the challenge of that is that becomes a habit that our brain really latches onto. We get really addicted to that feeling, and the flip side of that feeling is when the reality hits and we have to pay the bills or we find ourselves in debt. So I would say the first and main benefit of spending less is that it eliminates that shame and guilt that so often comes with spending too much money.
Bright: host 2 (03:37):
I'm familiar with that feeling. Shopping and spending they're such a big part of our culture and for some groups it's even a time for bonding. I've certainly felt that way. I'm thinking about those days when you grab your friends and you go shopping or how families make it a to-do list item when they're on vacation and they want to shop. One of the pitfalls, I think emotionally and financially speaking, is that we have a really strong ability, a lot of us, to rationalize that spending. Paula, what tips do you have for recognizing when you're doing that rationalizing thing and how do you break away from it or interrupt it?
Paula: guest (04:21):
Interestingly, the work on this comes way before you ever go to the store. It's not something that I think that you can do in the moment. You really have to spend time with yourself and understand what your habits are and where your weaknesses are when it comes to spending. And then for myself, it comes down to defining the difference between a want and a need. In our house, we really avoid saying, "I need to buy something," because in most cases it's not a need.
(04:49):
But when you start thinking that way, when your mind is gravitating toward, "Oh, I need to do this, I need to buy it." That can be a trigger for you. That can be something that you're like, "Okay, I really have to watch out for that mindset because then I slide into it." That's also where knowing your personal values comes in. When you've spent time truly identifying your money values, it's easier to see when you're rationalizing a purchase and then correct that.
Brian (05:14):
I love that, Paula. It reminded me of a story. My sister was a professional nanny for years, and she nannied for some families that had some money, but the parents were doing their best to try and teach their children between a need and a want, and they would talk about needs versus wants. My sister was in a toy store with this little one one time and he was dragging this massive box, and it was an inflatable pool. It was huge. It was heavier than him, and he was like, "I need this. I need this." We were laughing so hard because he is trying to grasp the concept between a need and a want, but doesn't quite get it. I don't know, maybe he does need an inflatable pool.
Paula: guest (05:53):
Well, we don't get it as adults, so we can't really expect a child to get it.
Brian (05:58):
Such a good point.
Paula: guest (06:00):
But if you have a plan going into it, I think that's huge. I so often liken spending to eating, I'm very much into health and fitness, and so I really watch what I eat, and you have to train yourself to choose the right things on the menu. And I think you have to do the same thing when it comes to your money. You train yourself of what you're willing to spend, what you can spend, and don't see it as depriving yourself, see it as something that you're doing for yourself.
Brian (06:27):
You bring up an interesting point, Paula, and that's the idea of instant gratification and how that can lead to accumulating debt. And in our last podcast episode, Bright and I, talked a little bit about the mindset around debt and how that some debt, it's okay, particularly if it helps you achieve a larger goal and it's reasonable.
(06:48):
So for example, if I go into debt with a reasonable car loan, but then I have a reliable transportation to get to a new job where I can make more money and build my career, I think that's probably okay, right? But when we talk about spending habits, we need to have a balance between income and debt. Paula, can you talk for a minute about why so many people fall into the trap of debt?
Paula: guest (07:12):
Oh, there's so many reasons, but part of it today comes from having so many choices and so much availability. Anyone who's on social media, which is all of us, we're constantly being shown new things that we need to buy or try and there we go back to need. It starts giving us that message that we need more. And then the availability quotient, it's a bigger problem today because, brace yourselves kids, we used to have to get off the couch and get in a car and drive to a store and walk into it to spend our money, and now you can just reach across and click a button on your phone and you can do that.
(07:49):
And I think because it has become so easy, it really, really becomes a habit to just spend, get it, don't even think about it. And then it's, we're on social media and again, we see what others have and we think we need that too, as you mentioned in your intro about keeping up with the Joneses and the way things are framed on social media makes us feel like less because we don't have those things and that's human nature. So it really comes down to that Sheryl Crow song which said, it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have. And I think that's really where you have to put your mind.
Brian (08:22):
Yes, I just heard that song randomly.
Paula: guest (08:26):
It was destiny.
Brian (08:27):
And I forgot about that line. And I was driving. I was like, "Dang, I got to write that down. That's so good." Now it's in our podcast. I love it.
Bright: host 2 (08:36):
And, Paula, I think that that's really interesting too, that self-talk piece and especially when we tell ourselves, "Oh, I need that. I need more." And often, I think for me it's not even words, it's just this feeling of this pull to whatever that is. And because things are so automated now, it's just so easy to get it, and then it shows up on my doorstep immediately and it's like, no effort, but there's a literal and figurative cost to that, and these little things add up quickly, and before you know it, you can be looking at a pretty big credit card bill.
(09:20):
In the next segment, we're going to be talking about practical ways you can cut back on spending and how to find joy in saving. Stay with us.
(09:35):
Welcome back. We've been discussing the benefits of spending less, particularly if you need to take out debt to make new purchases and how saving money can actually make you feel happier and more confident. Saving money has to be a thoughtful choice. So, Paula, what are some practical ways that we can all cut back on spending? How do we do that?
Paula: guest (10:00):
Well, the first thing, and it's what we just talked about before the break, it's getting into the habit of knowing whether something is a want or a need. And if you make a conscientious decision every time you make a purchase, instead of, as we talked about, it's so effortless and it's so easy, we don't even think about it. We just click that button. And so I have an overnight rule, and that is, because a big sucker for T-shirts with funny sayings on them, and I'll find things, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I love. I'd love to have that," and I'll put it in the cart. But then I make myself wait overnight and the next day it's like, "You know what? I really don't want to spend $32 on that shirt."
(10:40):
So that's one thing I do is I don't make impulse buys. I might take the first step of making an impulse buy, but then I come back, I think about it, come back and see if that's really still what I think aligns with where I want to be.
(10:52):
And another thing I do is delete all purchasing apps and easy access to shopping. I do not have Amazon on my phone. I can get it, I have to go all the way to the website to get it, but I make it a challenge to purchase something online. And it's amazing how much you decide you don't need when you do that. And then I also make savings part of the challenge, and it really becomes a fun part.
(11:18):
You can reward yourself. Again, like I said, it's like health and fitness or food. Compare it to a diet. If I have hit this certain milestone, I get to reward myself and the reward is not going out and buying something, by the way. So I kind of take those same things and make it where it's a positive thing. I'm not depriving myself, I'm doing something for myself, and I will reward myself when I hit these goals.
Brian (11:44):
I like that. I like how you've identified the areas for you that you know, you know yourself and you're like, "Okay, this is difficult for me. This usually leads making decisions that aren't good for me in my life. I'm going to put some friction with those activities." And then the things that are good for you, and you're saying, "Ah, I'm going to reward myself for those types of things." I just love that there's great psychology there.
(12:07):
Looking at how you spend your money in relation to how those purchases stack up against your values is so important. Paula, can you talk for a minute about how you can define your values, those things that are most important to us, but tell us a little bit about how we can define our values and how we can take a values-based approach to spending and saving?
Paula: guest (12:28):
That's such a great question because it's something I think a lot of us have lost sight of, and it does take some effort. It's sitting down and really talking about where do I want to be in five years? What do I want to achieve? We do that with our career or we do it with our relationships, but do we do that with our money? And think about financially where you want to be and what's important to you.
(12:52):
And it's funny how you might find out where you want to be and your shopping lists don't match up. So you can really start looking at how your spending isn't supporting your values and your goals. And when you can start identifying that, and if it's challenging for you, put it on your mirror, put it on your desk where you're going to see it every day, and it's going to remind you until you build that muscle up that this is where I want to be financially and these are the things I'm going to do to get there.
(13:22):
A huge thing for me, we talk about gratitude a lot at Live Happy Now, it is one of the defining practices of my life and being grateful for what you have and where you are makes a tremendous difference in your desire to spend. Again, like Sheryl Crow said, when you can start wanting what you already have and when you can think about the abundance of what you own and what you have access to, you stop looking at that lack, you stop looking at what everyone else has and what you might be able to have and it changes how you look at things.
(13:57):
You start flipping your thinking and training your brain to look for what's good around you, instead of saying, "Well, I don't have as nice of a house. They have a better car. I want those clothes." I can't even explain how much gratitude can really, really change your life, but being grateful for what you are will change your spending habits.
Bright: host 2 (14:16):
I couldn't agree with you more, Paula. And that's been a practice in my life to that I've really took on years and years ago and have continued because it's effective, right? Because that gratitude practice does something to my brain where I'm looking less for what I don't have and more quickly and naturally identifying what I do have. And it's wild how it can quiet down that little kid inside of me that's grabbing the pools and being like, "I need this one, and then I need this, and then I need this." And it's so key, and it's not magical, but it can feel magical. And I think that's an incredibly powerful practice for people to implement.
(15:01):
And it's so easy, it's free, it just takes a little time and a little effort and consistency and it brings joy on its own. And I think another piece of what we're saying is living in the moment, and this isn't an original conversation, many people have talked about spending less, but I'm curious, it seems to be there's this uptick about it right now. So why do you think so many people are trying to have more and be more rather than being content? It feels like there's just sort of mixed messages around that. I'm curious, what's your perspective on it?
Paula: guest (15:38):
One of the big ones, again, I go back to social media and before everyone's like, "Okay, Boomer." That's not the case, I use social media. I like social media, but we also have to put it in its place. People are curating their perfect lives in their feeds. What we're seeing is really their best of highlight reel. It makes us feel discontent with what we have. "Their vacation was better than ours, their new house is better than ours."
(16:05):
When I had bought my first house, I was in my thirties, I was really proud. I was so happy I just closed on it. And I also was a freelance writer for a home design magazine. Well, they sent me to interview these homeowners who had just completed their 18,000 square foot dream home and my 1800 square foot house didn't seem that shiny when I got home that day.
(16:28):
And that is a big deal when we look at what someone else has and we see how much it shines, it makes ours seem like less. People compare themselves to others. It's been said before, comparison truly is the thief of joy. And when we start looking at what others have instead of, again, the gratitude of what we already have, it changes the way we view those things.
Brian (16:50):
So interesting. Social media is fascinating to me because I'm not on most social media channels. I have one account for work and that's about it, and I even have to be careful with that. But I do remember when one of the major social media platforms came out. This is years ago, and I started looking on it and I started checking it out and I realized what other people were doing. This was way before we knew anything about what we now know, fast-forward 15 years around the psychology of social media and some of the dangers, particularly for young folks where their brain is still forming and they're still trying to get a grasp on the world.
(17:27):
So I'll speak for myself, but when I was checking it out years ago, I just realized I was like, "Dang, this does not bring out the best of who I am," because when I see other people doing well and I am like, "Dang, I'm not there." That's one thing, that was a feeling that I just recognized like, "Ooh, I'm not sure I like that. That's not me. That's not who I am." But then I also had this interesting flip side too, where we don't talk about this very much, but for me personally, sometimes I would be doing better than someone I'm looking at and it wouldn't have me continue to push and achieve what I really set goals for, which is my benchmarks, and it has nothing to do with anybody else, but it's kind of that flip side.
(18:07):
So I just decided very early on, I was like, "Huh, I don't know very much about this, but I just don't feel my best self." And I said, "No," and it's fascinating. I didn't rant about it. I'm not even trying to rant about it now. I'm just simply sharing my own experience with social media years ago, and it just comes down to me and me trying to be the best version of who I am.
(18:27):
And I could tell it was hindering that. So I appreciate your thoughts on that, Paula, thank you. Paula, just a little while ago, we were talking about the importance of matching our spending to our values, but what are some practical ways we can just have fun and joy without spending a lot of money?
Paula: guest (18:43):
There are so many and we forget about it. This summer we did a promotion on Live Happy Now called The Summer of Fun Campaign, and it was an eight-week course, and it was really helped to get people to build more fun into their lives. But as it turned out, most of the things that we were asking them to do were free.
(19:00):
One thing that I love to do is whatever city you're in, take a couple of days and look at it as if you're a tourist. You can go out, you can find free stuff to do. Every community, every city has free things that you can do. We'll go out and explore them as if you'd never been there before. There are so many things that we take for granted because we're used to doing the same certain things, and it's really a lot of fun to get out there, explore something new, and if you're doing it with your family, your partner, whoever it is, just a group of friends, that's really a fun way to approach it.
(19:29):
And you're not going out shopping, you're not spending a whole bunch of money and you're having a great time in discovering some things you didn't know. And it's of course good for your brain to experience things differently, think differently, find something new that really delights your brain. You can also look at museums, events, outdoor concerts, or just being out in nature because all of those are things that are not going to cost a lot of money. Again, good for your brain, good for your checkbook, and I'm sorry we don't have checkbooks anymore, do we? It's good for your credit card.
Brian (20:02):
Oh, that's funny.
Paula: guest (20:02):
And it's all for just a little bit of money or nothing. And there's such a value too, of just getting together with friends, whether you're having a game night, those social connections are so important, much more important than being able to spend the money. You'll just find so much value. You feel so much better coming home from having had a great night out with friends than coming home with a credit card hang over.
Brian (20:26):
I love that. Being a tourist in your own town. I'm going to give that a go. So here's a follow-up question. You talked earlier about how buying things can give you a bit of a dopamine rush, but can saving money do the same?
Paula: guest (20:40):
Yes, in fact, you can turn it into a competition with your loved one. If you are a competitive sort, which I may or may not be, but you kind of see, "Okay, who can set aside, who can do a little bit better? Let's hit..." Set a certain financial goal and then let's see who gets there first. It's a fun way to have a great effect. Nobody loses because you both have saved money and honestly, setting goals, our brains love patterns and they love goals. Meeting your goals feels fantastic. So when you start setting financial goals and then you hit them, you get as big a dopamine hit as if you have just purchased something.
(21:15):
And if you say, "I'm going to do this because I'm saving for this trip," or "I'm saving for this car," whatever it is, then that gives you a little bit of excitement. You have that anticipatory savoring again of like, "Man, I'm closer to owning this vehicle," or "I'm closer to being able to go on this trip." You can even use a vision board to help you get there, to really reinforce, "This is why I'm doing it." It makes you remember on those days where it seems like drudgery. It'll give you that little push to keep in mind, "Hey, this is what we're doing it for," and it makes it real to you every day.
Bright: host 2 (21:47):
I love that. I think that's so powerful, and I can just affirm that by saying, when I go in and I look, which I don't do very often in my savings or my investing, and it's bigger than it was before, I'm kind of like, "Oh, wow." And I do get that little dopamine rush and that sense of pride, and it really helps me just keep going on that.
(22:12):
Paula, it has been so much fun having you on our show talking about practicing gratitude and getting in touch with your values has been so grounding and inspirational. And I really appreciated hearing why we love to spend money and how we can get that same feeling when we save and meet our financial goals. And I think it's going to inspire me to re-up and get a little more discipline, so thank you.
Paula: guest (22:37):
Thank you so much for having me. This really is a habit, and it's just something that you build on and you take small steps repeated daily, and it has amazing cumulative results.
Brian (22:48):
Paula, it's been a great conversation, and I think all of us, well, me included, we can all think a little bit more about practicing gratitude and the good things that come with resisting the urge to buy that fast fashion item or cool piece of technology. I liked what you said about the overnight rule. I wrote that down. Give it a little space, think about it. And if that T-shirt is still is amazing as you thought it was the day before that saying, and you got to have it, well then go for it. But if not, maybe not so much. Paula, we appreciate your time today. Thank you.
Bright: host 2 (23:25):
That's it for this month's episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian. Thanks so much to our guest, Paula Felps. To hear more from Paula and her podcast, Live Happy Now, which is in its 10th season visit livehappynow.com or subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, and thank you as well, Brian.
Brian (23:46):
Thanks, Bright. And, Paula, we appreciate you sharing your insight and money saving tips. You can access all of our podcast episodes and many other resources and tools at truest.com/money-mindset, or you can just search Truist Money Mindset. We'll be back soon with another great topic on ways you can boost your financial confidence. See you next time. This episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian, is brought to you by Truist.
