Brian Ford (00:08)
Welcome to Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian, a podcast exploring the connections between good financial habits and positive psychology to help you find greater happiness. I'm Brian Ford, head of Financial Wellness at Truist, and I'm here with my friend and co-host Bright Dixon, Truist's resident positive psychology expert. ¿Cómo estás hoy, Bright?
Bright Dickson (00:30):
Hey Brian, I'm doing great and I am excited about the topic that we're going to discuss today. So April is Financial Literacy Month, and this episode focuses on the importance of talking about money to help build financial confidence. And April is also significant for you, Brian, because you have written a book called Financial Confidence: Eight Pillars to Greater Happiness, and I'm pretty excited to talk about that as well.
Brian Ford (00:55):
Hey, thanks, Bright. I agree this will be a great conversation and you know I love Financial Literacy Month. You ready to get started, Bright?
Bright Dickson (01:03):
I'm ready. Let's jump in.
(01:11):
Welcome back to Money and Mindset. Brian and I are discussing why we don't talk about money, what makes it taboo, and what money related topics we should be talking about for our financial and mental health. I bet that when many of us were growing up, our parents told us in some way that talking about money at the dinner table or wherever else was impolite. And even today conversations about money are still considered taboo. Since April is financial literacy month, now is the perfect time to discuss how to have open, honest financial conversations to boost our financial literacy and our financial confidence. And coinciding with Financial Literacy Month is the release of Brian's book, Financial Confidence: Eight Pillars to Greater Happiness. Congratulations, Brian. That is a huge accomplishment.
Brian Ford (01:57):
Well, thank you, Bright. I am excited. In fact, I'll show our listeners now that we're doing video podcasts, kind of the book, the cover just came out. I mean, I'm excited. I put my heart and soul into this book, Bright, so pretty pumped to talk about it today.
Bright Dickson (02:14):
That's awesome, Brian. So to get us started, I have two questions for you. First, what made you want to write the book? And second, how do you define financial confidence?
Brian Ford (02:24):
I wrote the book because most personal finance books today I think miss the mark. I mean, a lot of these books focus purely on investing kind of in the hottest new phase or owning your own business or becoming a real estate investor. And by the way, Bright, I agree with a lot of these ideas. I mean, I am an entrepreneur. I've owned and successfully sold my own business and I actively invest in real estate. However, I believe that the majority of these books, they fail to teach the bedrock principles of true financial success because most of these books really are just about selling more books. And while that's okay, that doesn't always have everyone's best interest at heart. And so in an effort to sell more books, they skip over fundamental principles of financial confidence and focus on flashy ideas that just don't apply to everyone.
(03:19):
And also most of today's financial books fail to connect money to areas in our lives of deeper importance. Our values. We talk about this all the time, right? On our podcast, connecting money to what matters most to us in life because I believe money, it's just an object to manage. Without the meaning and purpose I give it what it means to my family, my health, and so on. It won't bring lasting joy. Money's only a means to a much deeper end. I value money as far as it can serve what really matters in my life and empower the people and causes I care about. And one of the bedrock principles of the book is getting our money in harmony with our values. And then Bright, I think you also asked me about my definition of financial confidence. ¿Es así?
Bright Dickson (04:08):
Sí.
Brian Ford (04:09):
Yeah, I got kind of excited there. Today, we're flooded with information regarding personal finance and not all of it is sound. Sometimes we struggle with where to begin and what to believe, and my goal for the book is to bring simplicity and sound principles to our money life. I wanted people to have pure and simple steps. In the book I call these steps pillars, there's eight of them. And the eight pillars are specifically designed to sift through the complexity and allow us to implement a simple yet successful plan that will result in financial confidence. To answer your question directly, Bright, financial confidence comes down to taking care of what we can control.
(04:49):
Of all the challenges we face in life, money issues should be among the easiest to handle. And I know some of us might find that hard to believe, Bright, you might be one of them, but I say this because money is an object, money is subject to our management. So ultimately we have the real power over our financial future because financial challenges are manageable. So I would simply say this, financial confidence is about practicing proven and timeless principles, so money's no longer a significant driving force in our life and being in control of our money allows us to focus on what we really value most.
Bright Dickson (05:25):
Yeah, I love that, Brian. I mean, you know how we talk about control, what you can control, and it's a direct link to financial confidence, right? It's so important, and I agree with you, it shouldn't be as hard as many of us feel it is sometimes, right? It doesn't have to be that way. And gaining more financial knowledge gives you more ability, which gives you more confidence. Brian, is there one pillar or chapter or principle that's your favorite? I know that's asking you to pick your favorite child, but is there one that you want to sort of hone in on as really important?
Brian Ford (06:05):
Yeah, I'm not going to name which one of my four children. Now, I love all those little critters and same thing, it was a good example, Bright. I mean, so many good financial principles that I love in this book. I mean, in pillar four, I simplify estate planning. In pillar five, I talk about investing, which I know a lot of people like, but maybe instead of my favorite, I'll mention just a couple that come to my mind. In pillar six, I talk about homeownership. And Bright, I've been doing this for a couple decades now and teaching people about personal finance. And through the years I've seen so many people do so many good things with their money, but then they're still struggling because they're house poor and they wonder why they struggle to save and get ahead. And so in pillar six, I talked about a simple rule of thumb called the 30% rule and how your home, whether you rent or buy, should not cost more than 30% of your income.
(07:06):
So that's a really important principle. As far as chapters, I love pillar seven because I talk about investing in your number one income earning asset, which is you. So instead of talking about IQ, a lot of people think, I've got to be super smart to do all this. It's like, no, it's shown that that doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes relative to just making good financial decisions. So instead of talking about IQ, we discussed something that we created called VQ, which stands for value quotient and specifically how growing your VQ is related to growing your income. Those are just a couple that kind of come to my mind. There are so many little nuggets in the book that can get us moving in the right direction. And I think a lot of these things can help spur conversation with loved ones, which I think is important in what we're talking about today.
(07:55):
Part of being financially confident is knowing when and how to have good discussions about managing our money. And here's something I think you'll find interesting, Bright, a survey from Bankrate found that while younger generations are more comfortable talking about money than older generations, they still don't love to do it.
(08:14):
In fact, Gen Z and millennials would rather talk about politics, religion, and even their weight than they would about financial topics, like credit card debt and bank account balances. So Bright, we know that talking about money at the table, topics like salary, savings, and financial goals, it's just not considered to be polite conversation. But my question for you is why is that?
Bright Dickson (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, I think it is a complicated tapestry of reasons and some are societal, some are personal, but I would say one, a lot of us have gotten the message from our parents or whoever raised us that it's impolite to talk about money. That's a message many of us get very, very early on. And so it sort of becomes a part of our identity and a part of those scripts that we've talked about before that you just sort of don't do it. I think we get a similar cultural message, and it's sort of funny, a lot of our culture today is focused on celebrity and status and those identifiers, having the latest and greatest clothes or car, vacation, or phone or whatever. We see sort of the evidence of it, but we still don't really talk about money itself and there's more sort of showing than there is talking about it.
(09:45):
And I think with material possessions, you're indicating a certain lifestyle or a certain frame of mind or you're indicating belonging to a certain group. But for a lot of people, actually talking about the dollars and cents itself is a step too far. And I think that the bigger reason driving a lot of this is really shame. And it can be shame sort of around anything about money.
(10:15):
So for some people it's like I have too much or for some people it's I have too little or that I don't feel good about my relationship with money, so it's going to cause more evident emotions in me like anxiety or anger or whatever. And I think that there's a positive politeness in not wanting to trigger that in yourself or in others, that there's actually a kindness there. But the problem is that over time, if we're only defaulting to that same behavior, we're not learning. And so it shuts down the ability to take on any new knowledge because we're like, oh, we just don't go there. We just don't do it. And this can be subconscious and we make mistakes when we learn no matter what, but when we have a deficit of knowledge, that's when we can make the whoppers, the big ones that hurt us over time.
Brian Ford (11:18):
Yeah, Bright, I think you're spot on. And in past episodes we talked about the importance of having money conversations. Specifically, there was a couple episodes on having conversations with teens and even younger kids. And if we ground these talks in the need to learn, to have financial literacy that grows into financial confidence, then maybe we can take away some of the emotion associated with money conversations and focus on the practical side of things.
Bright Dickson (11:47):
Yep. I think that's right. And now we know that some of the reasons why we avoid talking about money, but we do really need to have these conversations over time throughout our whole lives to improve learning and financial literacy. So Brian, where do we begin? How do we facilitate these conversations and what topics do we start with?
Brian Ford (12:09):
Yeah, one of the topics we can start with is simply the need that we all have to learn more about money. That's why I love Financial Literacy Month. Use this as an opportunity to just chat about the need to learn and to know more, to have that curiosity, to be humble. My goodness, I love this topic. I've dedicated my life to it, but I've got lots to learn and that's okay. So I just approach it as like, Hey, let's learn some more and talk about maybe a good book that I just read or a particular article. It's really cool, Bright. I have a friend who has made a hobby of studying influential people from history. He loves reading the biographies of individuals who have shaped our world in a positive way. I mean, some of them are like scientists, artists, spiritual leaders, military commanders, athletes, philosophers, and sometimes they're just ordinary people who made a profound difference in the world.
(13:05):
He loves reading about them, and I found this fascinating. And as he studies their lives, he tracks the essential characteristics and attributes that made these people great. And my friend once told me something really interesting that I'll never forget. He said that there were a lot of characteristics that showed up repeatedly among those who impacted the world for better. However, he found one trait that all of them had in common. Everyone and the single attribute that they all shared was reading. These amazing individuals were intense seekers of knowledge. And so it's my hope that we take advantage of financial literacy month and commit to simple... Just simply saying, I don't know everything, and commit to learning more and opening up good conversations with loved ones about what you're learning.
Bright Dickson (14:01):
Yeah, I love that. We're made to learn, right? Our brains are made for it, and if you just sort of put the right stuff in front of you, it'll happen. I think that's such good advice, Brian. Thanks for that insight. I'm going to think about that. When we come back, we'll discuss ways you can change your mindset to help build financial confidence.
Brian Ford (14:29):
Bright and I are talking about the importance of having open, honest conversations about money so you can learn and build your financial confidence. Bright, you know I love stats. So here's one that got my attention. Data from Pew Research reveals that only about half of American adults say that they know a lot or a fair amount about personal finance. And so look, you don't have to be the greatest of math, but that means that about just as many, about half who don't think they know a lot about finance, that's half of us. We've got to change that so that every adult is informed and empowered to make great financial decisions. So Bright, what do you think we can do to change this reality?
Bright Dickson (15:14):
Yeah, I mean, I think this is a great time to talk about self-efficacy, which we've mentioned a couple times on the podcast, but so self-efficacy is this internal belief that you have the skills to meet the challenges that are ahead of you. It's this internal belief of like, yeah, I don't know what's going to happen, but I've got the stuff it takes to meet it as it comes. And I've also got the ability to get those skills as I need them.
(15:45):
And I think self-efficacy is really that spark for confidence. The self-efficacy comes first, then the doing and then the confidence. So you don't really get them without each other. And when we think about financial literacy, if you hone your financial literacy skills, if you learn more, if you try things out and understand how they work in the world, you believe you can be successful and you'll build that financial confidence. And once you have that, it translates across time and it grows. That doesn't mean that you stop learning more, but you've got the foundation and once you've established that, you don't really lose it, right? It sticks around with you like riding a bicycle.
Brian Ford (16:28):
Yeah, I agree, Bright. And you build confidence by doing things, then learning from them, then applying those learnings. And then we all realize, hey, I can do this. And financial confidence doesn't necessarily come from a motivational speech, like someone saying you should be confident, but rather it comes from trying something and being successful and then you know can do it. I love this topic of self-efficacy. You've taught me a lot about this subject. I didn't know what this was until we were doing this podcast together, but I love it. So thank you for bringing that up. I mean, we've got to roll up our sleeves and get stuff done, and sometimes that means starting with learning the basics about finance. For example, we can learn about the steps necessary to create a budget or the steps we need to take to save for retirement, but then we got to apply what we learn in real life and then we see success and then we build our confidence. And as we learn and apply, our self-efficacy grows.
Bright Dickson (17:31):
And you're pointing to sort of the key part here, Brian, which is that you got to do it. It doesn't come from the learning, it doesn't come from the book, it comes from the doing and then seeing good results or not so good results. We learn from both. And this makes me wonder, Brian, what do you think? Why is it that some people don't take the time to learn? So I know that I'm guilty of this in my life, and particularly formerly, I'd say I've gotten much better in the past four years when we've been doing this podcast, but other people can relate, right?
(18:05):
We know we should and we don't. I think maybe we need to look at why. So why aren't we doing it? Take a deep look at that. Why don't we want to deal with financial issues? What's holding us back? What's that nugget that's preventing us from budgeting or saving or investing? And do you claim that finances are boring or difficult? I'm speaking for me, I've said it on the podcast before, it can be kind of boring to me sometimes, but also I think that might be a little bit of a cover for something else. And if so, what is it about? Is it the fear really being responsible for yourself and maybe is that something you need to examine and update and change about yourself?
Brian Ford (18:52):
Yeah, it's crazy. So as we're talking about this Bright, I just grabbed the book and I was leafing through a few pages because it reminded me, I don't call it self-efficacy in the book, but I have something that I created called the confidence continuum. And I have a little graphic of it. Maybe if we get a chance we can throw it up, but it's this idea of learning, then doing, and then becoming. So it's just a simple continuum. It says learn, do, become. Because the focus of the book isn't just about being financially confident, it's about being confident. I mean, not just financially confident, it's about becoming something better. And so yeah, I agree with you, Bright. Those are all really good points. So Bright, how do you examine why you don't want to deal with something like finances or any issue in life?
Bright Dickson (19:43):
Or any issue. I mean, we can say the same thing about health. Sometimes we sort of choose willing ignorance. I think relationships, I see that pretty often is people... They don't want to get into it, but you know you should, so this isn't revolutionary, but one strategy is sort of writing it down and writing it out and sort of letting that subconscious voice speak. Even though I love to write, I found that I'm actually a terrible journaler. I have a stack of unused journals that can attest to that, where I'm like, this is the year and it's never the year. So I use another tool, which is the voice notes function on my phone, and I'll just talk it out. For whatever reason, it's easier for me to process when I'm talking it out. And listening to it back or even generating a transcript and hearing it or reading it again as if it's someone else helps me get some distance from it.
(20:47):
It helps me step back from it a little bit and be able to look at it and analyze it. And then whatever you find there. And for me, it is around some kind of fear of being truly responsible and truly owning my life and creating my life. There's something in there for me where I get a little hesitant to step into it sometimes. You need to create an alternative. You're like, okay, that sits where it sits. You can go work on that with a therapist or counselor or some other professional. Might be a good idea, but maybe you're not going to do that, but you can still sort of use the principles of growth mindset to change it. So you're like, all right, this isn't working for me. What's something that would work for me? And you can think of it almost like a mantra that you're going to use to specifically sort of push yourself into different behaviors.
(21:45):
So maybe something like learning is power and you put that out there and you make changes and then you're doing it and your self-efficacy grows. So it's in the doing. Again, it's not in the saying, it's not in the writing, it's in the doing where that ability and that self-efficacy grows. You're activating your words, and that's going to hopefully, if you do it, create positive results. And it can be like knowledge is power, sort of like whatever works for you. But one of the things that works for me is other people do this all the time. I'm not different than other people in that way, so I can do it too. It sort of just makes it less scary where I'm like, oh, other people are doing this all the time, right? 50% according to the statistic you quoted, right? So why can't I be... It's just as easy for me to be in that 50% than the other 50%, and that for whatever reasons, is motivating for me and leads to action, which is the point.
Brian Ford (22:54):
Yeah, so many good nuggets in there, Bright. I love the idea of audio dictating because I do that all the time. I use it on my phone. I love audio dictation and just this idea of almost having a conversation with myself, listening to it back, but I also like the idea of you saying, hey, other folks are doing this. Why can't I do it? And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book. So many finance books talk about what we lack and what we're not doing well, and they scare us into maybe making some good financial decisions. I didn't take that kind of route at all. I did was say like, look, this is what people do who are financially confident, and I say, you can do this too. These are regular folks. So I love that. That's great advice, Bright.
Bright Dickson (23:37):
Thanks. Yeah, it's normalizing, right? I mean, that's what works for me. Other things might work for other people, but whatever is sort of the most simple and drives you to action, that's what you're looking for. And once your comfort level grows, right? You try something, you budget, you save, I don't know, a thousand bucks in your financial confidence fund, whatever it is, that builds on itself. Just like you started riding a bike with training wheels and then you stopped using the training wheels and then you got the bigger bike with gears. You sort of level up naturally as you learn and grow and it builds your comfort level all around, so that talking about it even becomes easier because you've grown out of that fear that you have around that, and you have more skills to be able to manage those conversations, and then those positive cycles just grow the way that anything else does.
Brian Ford (24:39):
When we reduce money stress, we can see the improvements in our mindset and mental well-being, right? That's one of the reasons why we created this podcast, to show the connection between financial and mental health. I read about a survey from Forbes Advisor that looked at how having debt impacts mental health and the data revealed that 48% of respondents said that they were having trouble sleeping, 40% had more anxiety, and 60% said financial stress led to disagreements in their relationships. Not surprising. Bright, what are your thoughts about the connection between finances and mental well-being?
Bright Dickson (25:24):
I mean, it's huge, right? We know that from the studies. We all know that intuitively, right? Or from experience. When things are going well with money, we tend to feel really powerful. We tend to feel really in control. When things aren't going as well, we feel the opposite, and I think it's all the more reason to boost your financial literacy. Having that confidence that I've got... It's part of self-efficacy, right? I've got the skills to find what I need. I've got the money to find what I need. Having all of that together gives you more ability to take risks, more ability to pursue what you really want to pursue in your life, and that's really helpful. That's what builds that confidence over time. And then that strengthens your relationships too, because you're creating positive trust. You're creating bonds from a place of real stability and confidence when you talk about these really important topics, right?
(26:31):
This connection between financial well-being and mental, it's not everything. There's more, but it's fundamental. It's about safety fundamentally, right? We need to know that we're going to be safe in the world, and the more we're confident and have self-efficacy around our finances, the safer we're going to feel and the more we're going to be able to do. And the more, just like you were saying earlier, Brian, our values and the way we interact around money are going to come together for our benefit, for the benefit of the people around us. I also think for the benefit of people we don't even know too. It all sort of works together, and it's going to be really helpful for anyone listening to get a grip on that even if it is hard and slightly unpleasant. It'll be okay.
Brian Ford (27:20):
Yeah. I'm so glad that we had this discussion because I want people to feel like they have the tools they need to make smart financial decisions. And if you're listening or watching this podcast, way to go, you are building your self-efficacy by learning something new. Now, it's about going and applying what you know, and then that will build that confidence, that financial confidence that we've been talking about. And as we said, April is Financial Literacy Month, which I love. Use this month as an opportunity to learn more, open up good conversations with friends and family, but talking about financial topics all year round is also very important.
Bright Dickson (28:02):
That's it for this episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian. We hope you found this discussion helpful and came away with some actionable ways to talk about money and improve your financial confidence. If you'd like your very own copy of Brian's book, Financial Confidence: Eight Pillars to Greater Happiness, you can find it on Amazon. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you to Brian, and congratulations.
Brian Ford (28:24):
Thanks, Bright, and thank you to our listeners. We so appreciate you. You can check out other episodes of our podcast and some good articles and tools at truist.com/Money-mindset, or just do a Google search for Truist Money Mindset.
(28:43):
We'll be back soon with more episodes that are designed to help you boost your financial confidence. See you next month. This episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian is brought to you by Truist.
